Saturday, April 01, 2006

Stupid arguments for and against Intelligent Design

Slumming it at Daily Kos today. Found possibly the most obtuse argument against intelligent design that I've ever read.

If you read creationist literature or get to know their followers, it doesn't take long before one of them will tell you with absolute confidence that 'natural selection/mutation cannot increase genetic information'. It's an intimidating sounding claim. You probably don't know the definition of 'information' and the creationist isn't about to offer one. Most likely because s/he doesn't have the faintest clue what it would be. But it's actually an easy claim to counter because it's like saying you can only reduce the magnitude of a number with arithmetic.

Simply put, if a mutation decreases genetic information, then reversing that mutation, a so-called back mutation, will increase the information by the same amount. This flatly falsifies the claim that all mutations decrease genetic information without anyone having to so much as define what genetic information means. It's true for any metric of genetic information that follows well defined rules. See the trivial proof in comments.

Or, you could say that protein engineers use directed evolution to improve protein function all the time. You know, whichever strikes you as more reliable and easier to explain.

DarkSyde goes on to say:

We deal with informational conceptually and intuitively. It's one of those things we can do without knowing how we do it. Tissues, organs cells, genes, and words make up larger structures the way components make up a circuit. It's not just the presence of the components, but how they're wired together that makes the device operate as it does. Good luck measuring any of those with a metric of any kind.

I'll let the circuit analogy slide, because it has a smidge of validity. However there are thousands of metrics to be measured in cells. There are thousands that have been measured. There is a wealth of knowledge on the subject, that obviously isn't understood by DarkSyde . It doesn't require luck to measure cellular interactions. It requires a background in molecular biology and good lab techniques.

This is the problem with intelligent design becoming a political issue. Now we have the ignorant arguing with the stupid. (Take your pick for who is who.)

The reality of evolution doesn't hinge on political views, thought exercises, or "the elementary topological concept of a set". It hinges on experimental results and the scientific method. I know you're trying to help, but please stop now.

3 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Polyploidy increases DNA info, and it's the basis of much plant evolution.

8:49 PM  
Blogger Lanky_Bastard said...

If I have to defend the value of proper scientific methods to someone who writes a weekly science article, then I may as well agree that objective science is meaningless in the public discourse. Nevertheless, I'll try to put the argument in more detailed and less offensive terms.

3:09 AM  
Blogger Lanky_Bastard said...

I'll happily agree that this weekend you were not a pretentious jerk (and I was). Furthermore, I was wrong to go ad hominem on the basis of a single post and I apologize for the name-calling.

I did indeed come to the judgement that this was your best advice for how to deal with that particular talking point. It was my impression that you were volunteering to the layman a rebuttal talking point of your own...and obviously, I hated it.

The whole ID talking point is flawed and specious, but to counter it with a philosphical hand-waving exercise is a mistake. Such arguments allow ID to respond on a hypothetical abstract battlefield rather than a concrete scientific one. Just counter it with data. Challenge them to support with data. Scientific arguments have defined rules (hypothesis, testing, bias, controls, alternatives, etc..) and I think as long as ID wants a "science" tag it should be argued exclusively on those terms.

Anyway, I missed the boat on the purpose of the post. I see now that the ID angle was just to add flavor to the discussion of information, and possibly not meant to be a subtantive argument in it's own right.

So while I understand that I have misjudged both the author and the context, I still hate the argument (hopefully I've clearly explained why). However, it's sufficiently demonstrated that you're a nicer blogger than I am, so if you prefer to argue by formal logic rather than by empirical data, hopefully we can just agree to disagree.

2:55 AM  

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